Algorithms that Run the World with Cathy O’Neil

PodcastSeptember 20, 2021
Green cryptic code streams vertically on a black background, resembling the iconic "Matrix" digital rain effect, evoking a cybernetic and mysterious atmosphere.

As soon as you start thinking ‘what are you building evidence for?’, you realize it’s all human choices, it’s all agendas, it’s all politics, really.

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Intro

In this episode of The Decision Corner, Brooke Struck sits down with Cathy O’Neil, CEO of ORCAA and author of the New York Times bestseller Weapons of Math Destruction. Having studied and worked at some of the most prestigious universities in the world, including Harvard, MIT, Barnard College, and Columbia, O’Neil has been outspoken about the social risks of algorithms. 

In this conversation, O’Neil dives into some of the “invisible” problems that algorithms pose for society, and how decision-makers can create more responsible algorithms to better outcomes for society.

This episode includes discussions about:
  • The political nature of algorithms
  • How algorithms don’t predict the future, but create conditions for future events to occur 
  • How algorithms influence predictive policing 
  • How these biases invade hiring platforms and processes
  • The purpose of algorithms, which tend to serve those who create them
  • How policymakers and decision-makers can generate more responsibility among technicians

About the Guest

Cathy O’Neil

Cathy O’Neil

Cathy O’Neil earned a Ph.D. in math from Harvard, was a postdoc at the MIT math department, and a professor at Barnard College where she published a number of research papers in arithmetic algebraic geometry. She then switched over to the private sector, working as a quant for the hedge fund D.E. Shaw in the middle of the credit crisis, and then for RiskMetrics, a risk software company that assesses risk for the holdings of hedge funds and banks. She left finance in 2011 and started working as a data scientist in the New York start-up scene, building models that predicted people’s purchases and clicks. She wrote Doing Data Science in 2013 and launched the Lede Program in Data Journalism at Columbia in 2014. She is a regular contributor to Bloomberg View and wrote the book Weapons of Math Destruction: how big data increases inequality and threatens democracy. She recently founded ORCAA, an algorithmic auditing company.

About the Interviewer

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Dr. Brooke Struck

Dr. Brooke Struck is the Research Director at The Decision Lab. He is an internationally recognized voice in applied behavioural science, representing TDL’s work in outlets such as Forbes, Vox, Huffington Post and Bloomberg, as well as Canadian venues such as the Globe & Mail, CBC and Global Media. Dr. Struck hosts TDL’s podcast “The Decision Corner” and speaks regularly to practicing professionals in industries from finance to health & wellbeing to tech & AI.

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